Balancing Since Downfall

edited October 4 in General Discussions
Now i think ive played the new update enough to know how the pvp turns out.

But first of all i wanne thank sloclap for many changes that have been made and that turn out nicely and ofc for the new downfall game mode in wich i have alot fun. I especially love the boss fights and the map design oh booi its like walking through Davinci's daydream. Although the story telling and sounds in general feel awesome.
And ofc wich is one of the most important things for me.... more mooooves :blush:

Ok lets just say, everything i wont talk about now is just completly awesome, but since i love absolver i want it to be as good as possible and therefore have some suggestions.:

Weak Moves:
1.: Did you seriously nerf Calbot (-2 blockstun instead of 0) ? i mean it doesnt have to be strong but just why?

2.:Parry and Strike:
13 start up fits imo, but it doesnt parry low, i doesnt return stamina and has only 3 hitstun and 0 blockstun
and 50 damage. Parry and strike has the lowest damage in the game. For what? The only purpose of the parry is a slight frame advantage when parrying successfull BEFORE the hit, but a 10 or 11 frame move can simply do that better and even has more damage. If you could return the stamina regeneration of the parry moves theyd actually be balanced. Now it just doesnt make any sense to choose parry and strike over any faster move like low back fist or spinning elbow.

3.:Soto-Uke
just compare it to streched out hook.
+ 3 damage (less than 5%) 4stamina damage
-high thrust
-1 hitstun
definitly one of the weakest moves.. at least give it as much damage as uraken has.
even uraken is to weak since its the same as crouching elbow but only hitting high
instead of mid.

4.:Drunken Smash
compared to axe kick
+0,4m range
+/- -3 stamina damage +2damage
--1 on both stuns
-high thrust

5.:Upper Elbow
its just so fking slow and easy to dodge, definitly reward hitting with it more

6.: Pushed Elbow, Fast Punch Straight Punch
are all a bit to weak since wallop blow or uramawashi are doing everything better.
I like the thought of those diffecult to use high thrusts moves but they are just to weak.
10 more damage and 5 more stamina damage to each of those and the problem would be solved imo.

7.: Slap Kick, Illusion twist kick, scissor kick, bounce knee, falcon punch, 360 tornado
really really weak, to low damage for 18 or 16 start up. Jumps arent as viable as ducking moves
since the jump often starts to late and cant be used as proper counters to the most fast low kicks like ducking
moves counter high attacks. All those moves definitly need a buff.

8.: Ankle Stamp
compared to Reaching Maegeri
++ 1 frame faster
- 0,1 m range
- -- 3 hits and blockstun
- --low thrust instead of mid thrust
- -25% less stamina damage
- less tracking

In general i think the balancing has increased alot in Absolver and i dont feel like some moves are really overpowered^^.
Even so it wasnt really mentioned in the patchnotes, there have been very many good balancing changes with the downfall update.


Weak Spells:

The only spell i noticed that i really weak is Shield. Against fast spammers only, blocking is just as effective while other spells
are really strong now. Id suggest to increase the duration to block more damage overall.


Weak Equipment:

The heavy armor type is still by far the most uncommon and the least viable.
Maybe some change to the normal jump would help.
like a fast but short jump thats still gold linkable for armored absolvers.
How is someone supposed to play khalt with a heavy armor style when he cant even counter a guard break properly cause he cant gold link afterwards?


Styles:
im not sure about all the defensive abilitys but staggers stamina regeneration is awesome while
the weird and inconsistent dodges grind my gears.



Ok thanks for reading. I hope Absolver gets a bit more popular soon.

Comments

  • Btw crushing palm stats show it has 3,6m range i think its supposed to be 2,6m range. little spelling mistake i guess.
  • Hey methamos,

    Thank you so much for your detailed feedback about Absolver after Downfall update. Some issues like Crushing Palm range were already fixed in the Absolver 1.25 Patch.

    Thanks for being an active part of the community!
  • thx for responding al lthe time :*
  • I agree to what you say methamos, specially about the armor its simply not worth it anny more and thats a big hit on khalt.
    i play khalt since day one, and i can tell you that right now khalt is the weakest class in the game, easy to start but in the hight lvl it's not good enouph specially against a top tier Forsaken, simply Khalt will never win anny tournament until they change something.
    Resiliance was a good idea but the problem is that they increased the frame recovery after absorves from 4 to 6 frames, you are taking to long to get your ghost healt back after a absorb and more then 70% of the atts are medium power so you need lvl 2 resiliance to stop it wich will be super rare since each point will only last 1,5 sec.
    i believe a good way to balance khalt again is to increase the atts that are weak at bit and you should lose only half of the healt(damage of the oppont att) when you sucess a absorb to ghost healt.
  • I think khalt was a bit to save before downfall so i wouldnt like a simple re-buff. I even know some Absolvers that can win tourneys with khalt atm, but still khalt struggles a bit more than before the update across the board. But the whole resilliance stuff is very interesting.
    So my suggestion would be:
    - the resilliance time should be extenden as soon as an opponent STARTS an attack close to you.
    (that way you could absorb to slow moves in a row to get to lvl 2 resilliance)
    - cap khalts resilliance at lvl 2 (otherwise they could get to lvl 3 with the first change)
    - fast hits dont cause khalt to lose their ghost life as long as they have at least resilliance lvl 2
    (because tanking 2 stronger hits and than loosing all the life to a jab would just be frustrating)

    with that changes we would bring a never seen meta to khalt in wich they switch between single-and double absorbs
    to set up either fast attacks or stronger attacks with a higher risk.
    i think khalt could be alot fun this way.
  • edited November 4
    atm double absorbs are rarely usefull because you just risk to much life and i know that from playing against khalt alone.

    ok and because im friends with a couple very good khalt players
  • methamos said:



    Parry and Strike:
    13 start up fits imo, but it doesnt parry low, i doesnt return stamina and has only 3 hitstun and 0 blockstun
    and 50 damage. Parry and strike has the lowest damage in the game. For what? The only purpose of the parry is a slight frame advantage when parrying successfull BEFORE the hit, but a 10 or 11 frame move can simply do that better and even has more damage. If you could return the stamina regeneration of the parry moves theyd actually be balanced. Now it just doesnt make any sense to choose parry and strike over any faster move like low back fist or spinning elbow.

    Soto-Uke
    just compare it to streched out hook.
    + 3 damage (less than 5%) 4stamina damage
    -high thrust
    -1 hitstun
    definitly one of the weakest moves.. at least give it as much damage as uraken has.
    even uraken is to weak since its the same as crouching elbow but only hitting high
    instead of mid.

    Slap Kick, Illusion twist kick, scissor kick, bounce knee, falcon punch, 360 tornado
    really really weak, to low damage for 18 or 16 start up. Jumps arent as viable as ducking moves
    since the jump often starts to late and cant be used as proper counters to the most fast low kicks like ducking
    moves counter high attacks. All those moves definitly need a buff.

    Ankle Stamp
    compared to Reaching Maegeri
    ++ 1 frame faster
    - 0,1 m range
    - -- 3 hits and blockstun
    - --low thrust instead of mid thrust
    - -25% less stamina damage
    - less tracking


    Weak Equipment:

    The heavy armor type is still by far the most uncommon and the least viable.
    Maybe some change to the normal jump would help.
    like a fast but short jump thats still gold linkable for armored absolvers.
    How is someone supposed to play khalt with a heavy armor style when he cant even counter a guard break properly cause he cant gold link afterwards?

    Couple of things I have to disagree with

    Parry and strike: I think this move is fine where its at currently simply for not being able to turtle, spam and repeat. However i do agree that parry moves in general need something to encourage their use

    Ankle stamp/Slap kick:
    Because these are fast-light moves and are usually found in people who like to spam attack decks' i'd say they are also fine where they are. the way I see it you could use these moves to interrupt/dodge and personally i think thats what they should be used for

    While I don't contest that heavy armor definitely needs a buff, what you are suggesting is just short of buffing manual dodge. If i could offer a suggestion it would be to massively increase the defense of armor pieces to counter lower damage attacks

    That's about it for disagreeing on to the parts i agree with

    Pretty much everything else Im with you on lol

    Sato-uke:this absolutely needs at least a damage buff or a speed increase to give a competitive edge verses fast punch

    Illusion twist, bounce knee, falcon punch, 360 tornado kick: illusion twist and bounce knee should be sped up or changed so the jump happens sooner like you said the jump is very often late, with 360 tornado and for falcon punch I'm not sure speeding up is the best option, ideally jumping earlier in the animation would be best with maybe a damage reduction to compensate

    Khalt/resilience: Increase the resilience duration to around 4 or 5 seconds or so, that way the average player would be able to reach medium resilience and get a few hits in and top tier player would be able to reach heavy (heavy resilience would also be a counter to guardbreaks). I believe this would encourage feinting to throw off timing and re-introduce mindgames to khalt however i can already see the resemblance to forsaken, for that i think the simple solution of being able to confirm the quicker heavy hits on successful parry would allow for enough distinction between the two classes
  • Ok but I have to add a bit.

    A).we need a gold-link manuel dodge on heavy armor to give khalt the option to actually choose their armor type. Otherwise its just a trap that khalt players are even able to go for heavy armor.
    Get fast or get crushed it is now.

    B). Parry&strike.
    Dont get me wrong p&s was never more fun and im using it most of the time, but I can tell you that on avarage every single player will perform better with a simple 10-11 frame move instead of using p&s .
    Because the only advantage from p&s over a move thats as fast as the parry itself is +1 hitstun. A side from that p&s has disadvantages across the board. Damage,risk,tracking, interrupt potential.
    Idc if they buff the stamina reg. ,damage, the hitstun, the stamina damage or the push back range or tracking, I just want p&s to perform normal.
    My favourite 3ways to buff it would be either:
    1.reward successful parrys with 20-30stamina
    Or
    2.reward suc. Parrys with
    +2to+3 additional hitstun or
    3.reward suc. Parrys with +35 additional damage

    C).youre right that ankle stamp and slap kick have some uses ,BUT there are simply Alot other moves that outperform them on many lvl's and therefore the named moves are used alot less.
    My post is about balancing ,so what im asking for is to get them to the same lvl as other moves of the same speed.
    For example +5damage and +1 on both stuns for both attacks.

    That are the most important things I wanted to add
  • Granting a weight specific change to manual dodge sounds more like a "feature" than a gameplay change and is a step (pun half intended) in the wrong direction imo. NA is rampant with hit and run tactics to the point where half the bronze people I fight either don't know their defensive style even exists or just can't use it effectively. This completely devalues skill at the lower levels and makes combat trials quite frustrating to those that don't have their decks set up to counter a manual dodge

    You're right a slow weight is a trap, and not just for khalt players but frankly for all styles. It definitely has potential though and I think armor should be armor and offer more protection than it does currently (even with the highest value blunt/cut gear)

    I absolutely agree with #1 just cuz I feel like the other options leave too much room for bugs in later updates, I would love to see more parry moves used (besides parry and strike tbh) it shouldn't have a monopoly as THE parry move. Also what do you mean when you say "perform normal"? what's normal? lol

    With the addition of resilience (and hopefully buffs to khalt and khalt's use of resilience) I can't agree. At least for ankle stamp since it is a light move and compared to other light moves it does reasonable damage depending on your character stats. Upon review I confused slap kick with foot slap so I apologize. I'm a d*ck lol

    Yes buff slap kick
  • The manuel dodge for heavy armor wouldnt be annoying anyways since its wat shorter and costs alot more stamina. Just gold link should be an option.
    Besides that id fully agree on weakening the current manuel dodges in general, but buff khalt than since they are most affected by this.

    With "normal" I mean as average.For Example:
    -Gut Punch performs a tiny bit better than average.
    -reaching maegeri would be very good atm
    -power mawashi is a top tier move too and the most effective move to applie a 3hit punish (12-19-12) when breaking the guard enabling up to 350 damage.
    -crushing palm is one of the strongest moves with a good start up and insane blockstun

    Examples for mediocre performing moves atm would be:
    -front kick
    -crouching elbow
    -winged back kick
    -low spin heel
    -spinning elbow
    -twist parry strike
    -tripped kick

    Basically every move that s very well in some situation but wont be overused only because it has nice attributes.
  • edited December 7
    ok after aaaalot further testing i have to say parry and strike isnt underpowered.
    when started fast enough its able to interrupt pretty fast move that cant be interrupted in any other way.
    therefore its usefull. not only thats... parry and strike is still very good.
    It has to be used with quite alot care and needs a bit training, but its very usefull to block fast hits and charged moves.
    y i think you guys hit the spot with parry and strike balancing. this move is so much better the more you get used to it, so it has to feel underpowered in the first moment so it wont be op in the hands of an experienced player.

    The rest ive said is still accurate imo
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