Forsaken is just unfun

>Beat Forsaken player 3-4 times in a row. (3-4 best of 5 matches). THEN all of a sudden he's parrying EVERY move I throw out because you know, it's been 3-4 games, and I only have the 16 moves he needs to learn. So in order to play against this and beat him now, I have to change my timing or feint some moves? Wow, thrilling gameplay. I wouldn't be complaining if he was some god that parried every move I had from the very start, but this is just plain retarded.

tl;dr: Forsaken is unfun to play against any amount of times other than once.


  • Feint and punish to overcome forsaken players.

    Obviously your experience will become somewhat lacklustrer, your re-matching the same dude multiple times and it's very easy to get a lucky parry.

    Also, It would be impossible for anyone to parry every move from the start, as your opponent wouldn't know what attacks are in your deck lol.

  • If he used windfall, he'd dodge everything. If he was using khalt... Well, if he was using windfall he'd dodge everything, and you could make the same argument against windfall.

    Note that while he did learn your deck, you can learn his too. With my deck, I use alot of different counter move that strafe/duck/jump. If I know what is coming next, you are pretty much screwed too, and that is without using parry (I'm a windfall user)
  • forsaken is easiest class , its why i usually do not rematch. once they learn your deck you have to play several times harder then they do
  • @Hokagae I think you completely misunderstood the first comment. Of course he won't be able to parry every move until he's figured out the deck. And of course all I need to do is change up timing or feint some moves to punish him. But are you kidding me? I have to change MY playstyle? Just to beat someone in a best of 5 for a 4th time because now they finally have it figured out? Yeah, I'd rather just continue to be obviously better than this player, without them being able to push a single button after they have it all figured out. It's just not fun.

    Oh? Having difficulty against that Forsaken you just beat 3 times in a row? Try playing a COMPLETELY different way so you can beat him again.

    Yeah, no thanks.

    @Galoyal No, the same argument CANNOT be made for Windfall. A Windfall has literally NO ability to deal with horizontal (mid area) moves. You have to use the game's built-in dodge for all classes, and that's insanely unreliable. You can't windfall dodge left, or right, and you can't jump or duck. So please, tell me again how the same argument can be made for Windfall. And don't even get me started on Kahlt. I can REACT to a Kahlt absorb when he starts throwing his combos at me. There is NO reaction time available after getting parried. You take the punishment because they get a free hit. The only time I'm annoyed by this, is if I've already beaten them in a fight almost 10 times. I REFUSE to change my playstyle against someone who doesn't have to use a single extra bit of brainpower to play their class.
  • 2 things. Refusing to "change your play style" to combat your opponent is silly. And reading/adapting/countering does in fact require an "extra bit of brainpower"
  • It seems to me that you are basically asking them not to use their parry when they correctly anticipate your next move because you find it unfair, but it's okay to punish you trough blind luck.

    Because make no mistake, some move are too fast for your brain to actually compute. You can only parry a jab in this game because you KNEW I was going to throw it or you got lucky. No way your brain did compute "oh that's the animation for the jab" and responded with a parry in time.
  • Oh and Adonus, could you name for me a move or two that windfall is powerless against? I'm not asking this to challenge you, I've been using windfall from the begining and I was unaware I was powerless against certain move. I'd like to check that out for myself.
  • The whole point of PVP is to adapt to your opponents playstyle and abilities.

    It's sort of harder in a good way, in this game as every opponent has a different moveset.
  • edited October 2017
    2 Word for OP.

    Git Gud.

    It sounds rude, but seriously, it's true. What happened to have that guy start beating you? He got good. A bad player would never have gotten down the study of your movelist and the timing of your attacks and the pattern they come in. That's the easy part too, because all that can change on the fly if you did what you've been told to do, which is to change it up. You always do a five-hit string with a sweep as the fifth and then cancel with a strong attack? Cancel the third attack into a strong attack, then next time start with a different string, then cancel the second hit on that string into a strong attack.

    He was also bad at it, because a better player would have read you like a book on either the first or second round, and your response to all this? Nerf the parry because he figured me out and I shouldn't have to get better to win? Do you want to only face gibbering idiots the entire time?

    Come on man, don't be dumb. If someone beats me because they are better than me, I just admit it and move on and try to get better myself. What you are doing is a poor excuse to stay where you are and not progress, but to still succeed by bringing everyone else down to your level.

  • Here's my response to everyone's ignorance. I wouldn't have a problem with this if there was a ranking system, or some incentive to "Git Gud" and beat my opponent AGAIN. You know... after like 2-3 rematches that I won. I did change it up, and he was still able to parry everything. With this game and the amount of bugs it's riddled with, I wouldn't be surprised if I was experiencing some retarded server shit at the time. In any case, there's no incentive for me to actually keep fighting this person.

    As far as I can tell the whole point of the post went completely over everyone's head. I said it was unfun to play against Forsaken.At no point did I call for a "nerf" or a rework even. I just said it's not fun to continue playing against anyone of this class. If there was a ranking system, I would find some sort of competitive fun because I'd have a real reason to CONTINUE to outsmart my opponent.

    So for anyone who has replied to the original post, and to anyone in the future. Learn to read, and once you're certain you can do that, go ahead and find some sort of appropriate reply to the post. Should've expected it to go off topic the moment I posted on a forum.
  • The issue I'm mostly seeing here is the lack of post-game customizing, and just problems with Parry in general.

    I agree with you, Parry is absurdly easy. Two directions, but anything mid is an omni-parry that will parry from any direction(most initiators, elbows, and any vertical move), and a success leads to critically guaranteed moves that can do 100+ DMG? Gross. A forsaken with even mediocre knowledge of your deck can punish you incredibly well, throwing neutral out the window from them in poor neutral to them in an exclusively forsaken level of excellent neutral.

    Feinting and Punishing is something you can do to every ability. If you feint a Kahlt the recovery frames make them get hit in the face. Feint a windfall and you track them and beat them until they dodge again. Stagger feinting can avoid the abilities tap, letting you reinitiate.

    Feinting a Forsaken is ironically the one with the least rewards. It can make you eat a buffered hit. Feinting into a damaging move can just be parried if they parry in a panic twice, a positive perk in the place of most other classes negatives upon doubling up on ability usage. Foraskens also have Option Select.

    This basically means if Forsaken misses the parry, they dodge, and if they connect the parry, they critically damage you, making Parry absurdly difficult to punish with feints, but also consistently keeping their critical moves. By hitting both dodge and attack buttons, the game just automatically selects the best option for them, which makes them slippery as hell. If you don't get parried they slip away. If you get parried they beat you down. This is done automatically for them.
    ForsakenM said:

    Git Gud.

    As contrived and rude as this post is, there is at least some merit. The forsaken at least got general knowledge of your deck. The issue is that even bare minimum knowledge of a deck with Forsaken is mounds better than complex knowledge with any other ability due to Parry simply destroying neutral and flow, something no other ability has.

    TL;DR, always limit rematches to 2-3 with randoms. Any further is just each of you learning how to play specifically against yourselves rather than getting any better. Parry is the best ability in the game by miles, but its IMO only annoying fighting people new to the ability rather than those who've used it dedicatedly due to the sheer pressure of them just having a 50/50 at random.

    Rather than get gud, just play to have fun.
  • No arguing that logic. Parry is a bit OP, but I still use Forsaken; not necessarily because of the parry, but because I like the way they stand. I'd be just as happy to use Avoid but the Windfall stance is a little... I dunno, kinda wussy looking. If I could get the Kahlt stance with the Avoid ability, that would be ideal.
  • UNCBLOCKS said:

    No arguing that logic. Parry is a bit OP, but I still use Forsaken; not necessarily because of the parry, but because I like the way they stand.

    I can completely respect that, Forsaken probably has the most well rounded stance in the game. Windfall is too woooo mystical kung fu wushu man~ when I just wanna be a regular guy, and Stagger is obviously niche like.

    Kahlt animations are sick but at the cost of a pretty useless ability, which gimps the gameplay itself if you aren't used to it.

    I should clarify that good Forsakens are still a joy to fight, watching someone slowly learn your deck to land buffers is really fun. The problem is good Forsakens are few and far between as instead of needing to even learn buffers you could just flick the stick wildly and reap rewards of consistently good neutral just off the ability alone.
  • UNCBLOCKS said:

    No arguing that logic. Parry is a bit OP, but I still use Forsaken; not necessarily because of the parry, but because I like the way they stand. I'd be just as happy to use Avoid but the Windfall stance is a little... I dunno, kinda wussy looking. If I could get the Kahlt stance with the Avoid ability, that would be ideal.

    Similarly, I'd continue using Kahlt no matter what. I like the concept, the stance is awesome, and it sorta looks like a Dragon Ball Z power charge :smiley:
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