Open Discussion on Gold Linking

To Slo_clp and the Absolver community.

This is a discussion for everyone, I find that in many of my letters, the moment a developer posts their opinion, the community doesn't respond much since it seems that they might feel their opinion has been trumped by the authority of the devs.

I believe Gold Linking as a mechanic should be removed from Absolver.

1) Skill VS Skill Illusion

1.A) Skill in Absolver is something a player should be allowed to build up based on perception, patience and timing their attack, and knowing what stance they can use best to counter their oponent's strategy.

1.B) Skill Illusion, is muscle memory and watching a bar tell you when your next button press is coming up.

2) Personal Experience

2.A) I don't use gold linking because the moves I like to use are impacted very little by it, I like to hit hard, I wear heavy protection, fast light moves and light gear just go against the grain for me.

2.B) I have more fun in a match, even if I have lost, when my opponent has not used gold linking. I have a lot more respect for them when they don't use gold linking, because they beat me with skill, not a mechanic. And I am more likely to play back to back matches against somebody who doesn't use Gold Linking.

Conclusion

I have looked through the Absolver community forums and Gold Linking is a point of contention for many people, a simple search and you'll see many thread titles complaining about it, so my opinion is not the only one that feels this way.

TLDR

Do you think Gold Linking as a mechanic should be removed from Absolver, or kept in the game?

If you think it should be removed, please reply: #RemoveGL

If you think we should keep Gold Linking, reply: #KeepGL
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Comments

  • edited April 4
    Shortly: for the voting we shouldnt write our opinions, otherwise the text will get to long and nobody will read nor vote
    Otherwise ill fill this side for good xD (man i have to hold back)

    #KeepGL
  • Please, clarify what follows after removing gold link? Every hit will be like in gold link or like not in gold link?
    Spamming will not disappear after removing gold link.
    Spammers will just pressing buttons faster and thats it.
    It will not increase skill of players.
    Experienced players already knows about delayed moves and other helpful things and gold link is not the main thing of their strategy.
  • Maybe its easier to add an option "Hide gold linking" in the settings?
    Newbies will play with this option to help explore moves timing and if it became useless for them, they just click "hide gold linking".
  • edited April 4
    #KeepGL
    #KeepGL

    To address your points. I think GL is key to actual skill and not skill illusion.

    I use both fast and slow moves in my deck. It's designed to allow me to be aggressive when I want and to be smart when I want. I can go in and out of links with little to no effort and this allows me to be incredibly deadly and unpredictable. Which is the main staple for my personal skill.

    I fight the player not the game. I actively counter the playstyle of the fighter. If they are slow then I'll start GL to make them panic then while they are adapting i hit them with the slow powerful horizontals.

    GL saves stamina and allows for more efficient and effective mix ups.
  • #KeepGL
    It will not prevent fast hit spam and will lower skill. Moreover GL offers the posibility to the player to gold link or not, which IMO is great.
  • Shoegazer said:

    Please, clarify what follows after removing gold link? Every hit will be like in gold link or like not in gold link?
    Spamming will not disappear after removing gold link.
    Spammers will just pressing buttons faster and thats it.
    It will not increase skill of players.
    Experienced players already knows about delayed moves and other helpful things and gold link is not the main thing of their strategy.

    Actually with the recent patch, the basic Direct Punch + Straight punch combo has been slowed down a fair bit.

    Gold Linking doesn't need to be replaced by anything, because other fighting games have no 'speed boost' mechanic for putting a combo together.
  • #RemoveGL

    Without GL: game is more intuitive and easier for Dev to balance moves. I'm in for the visuals and wits during combat. All things being equal, a more intuitive and balanced game is better.

    GL makes the game more gamelike with its artificial mechanics but not more fun, just different.
  • edited April 5
    The thing about Goldlink is this; Before the game came out the devs explained in some of the presentations of the game, that the Goldlink, what they referred as the Flow,was a core element to the fighting.

    As others have said, I make use of Goldlink, but I do not use it all the time, it depends on the style of my opponent and the pace of the fight. I see it as just another skill in a fighters arsenal to add variability to their fighting style.

    While I applaud SloClap for listening to the community and making adjustment to improve the gameplay experience, I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand so to speak. Regardless of whatever changes are made, there will be players that try to find the easiest way to win. If we keep making adjustments to address this the game will eventually lose its appeal to a wider audience, I think.
  • I understand the logic behind Gold Linking, but it's current implementation is abused by fast moves with easy to hit Gold Link windows.

    If it were not present, then we wouldn't even miss it because it's not used all the time.

    Instead of rewarding hitting a button correctly, the devs should reward action and success. I won't go into too much detail on solutions here, what if breaking the opponents guard gave the next immediate move a boost in speed?

    There are solutions that could be discussed and explored, but for now this discussion is mainly geared towards Gold Linking's current implementation.

  • I understand the logic behind Gold Linking, but it's current implementation is abused by fast moves with easy to hit Gold Link windows.

    If it were not present, then we wouldn't even miss it because it's not used all the time.

    Instead of rewarding hitting a button correctly, the devs should reward action and success. I won't go into too much detail on solutions here, what if breaking the opponents guard gave the next immediate move a boost in speed?

    There are solutions that could be discussed and explored, but for now this discussion is mainly geared towards Gold Linking's current implementation.

    If you learn the moves it doesn't matter if they are gold linked or not they can still be parried/absorbed/dodged/countered
  • Keep goldlinking I don't gold link all the time because a good opponent will adapt to the speed so I purposely do some of my moves slower so I can throw him off. It's apart of the game & I actually like it some goldlinks look like art
  • In its basic form goldlink adds room for error to input timing so that it is easier for moves to flow from one to the next without interruption. The speed boost is a reward for hitting the mark.

    A lot of the feedbacks were about the speed boost was too high. This is a parameter that can be tuned. Scrapping goldlink altogether doesn't seem like a good idea. By #RemoveGL I meant tuning not scrapping altogether.
  • I think it needs to be redirected to relying upon a player creating advantageous situations to receive that speed boost.

    A window for the speed boost after a dodge

    Causing Guard Break

    An evade move avoiding an attack

    Stopping a hit with charged attack

    Stopping a move with a Stopping attack

    To keep the flow going, the speed boost could work like the heal shard skill, you keep it till you are hit/or you lose it if the attack misses.
  • 1.A- Yes
    1.B. - Absolutely not. Muscle memory, has been apart off every fighting games fundamentals. You literally have to practice your timings, well enough so that you don't even look at the stamina bar unless you're managing there's. Understanding when you can and Connot use that string with gold linking isn't an "illusion", it's a skill you develop with practice.

    Personal experiences are just that. Personal. Having goldlink removed would call for this game to be reworked from the ground up, and rework every class.
  • edited April 14
    Fighting games require the use of several buttons in combination and directional input as part of a move.

    Absolver unfortunately does not, it's combo system is akin to a dynasty warriors game, where you have the basic attack and the alternate attack that can be input at any time after X basic attacks.

    There is no directional input other than what stance you start your button input in, and moving around, in fact directional movement is baked into the moves, so the player doesn't input them manually.

    Gold Linking is not a core mechanic, it's a feature, and I've played the majority of the game without using it.

    Right now it is not a skill based mechanic, it's a button press prompt.
  • Fighting games require the use of several buttons in combination and directional input as part of a move.
    -Their are literally multiple fighting games that will allow you to literally do entire strings with two buttons.

    Absolver unfortunately does not, it's combo system is akin to a dynasty warriors game, where you have the basic attack and the alternate attack that can be input at any time after X basic attacks.

    -"Their are literally multiple fighting games that will allow you to literally do entire strings with two buttons."

    There is no directional input other than what stance you start your button input in, and moving around, in fact directional movement is baked into the moves, so the player doesn't input them manually.

    You have to manually input a move that jumps over a sweep, I.E; Jumplightkickingovermybacktrippedkick. What?

    Gold Linking is not a core mechanic, it's a feature, and I've played the majority of the game without using it.

    Its literally a core mechanic, that is suggested at the tutorial.

    Right now it is not a skill based mechanic, it's a button press prompt.

    Ill make you a combat deck, since you dont gold link, we'll see how much of a button prompt this game is when you have no idea when to silverlink, or goldlink.



  • For the record, I don't gold link because it grants no benefit the moves I would gold link into, because those who focus on gold linking decks will execute their move long before the move I'm trying to gold link. (I enjoy a more hard hitting deck.)

    I am aware that there are multiple arcade side scrolling or even 3D games that use two button attack strings, but those games have not got a single button prompt mechanic for going faster.

    I've played UFC undisputed 3 (the last good one, anything after that game was absolute junk)

    By Manual Input I mean that that is no hit; up, left, right + attack button.

    Absolver runs off your orientation to the opponent, not directional input. And by movement backed into a move, I'm referring to the fact that there is no button pressed in addition to the attack that cause the character to jump or duck, it's all in the move with a single press.

    A core mechanic is something essential to the core working mechanics of a system, Gold linking is a feature because the game play can be experienced without it ever being used.

    Gold linking is not a skill based mechanic, it is purely based on watching a bar on the screen and hitting your next attack when that bar tells you, it's exactly like those button prompt cutscenes.

    What I would like to see is Gold Linking implemented in a more strategic and player skill based manner that is the result of the player's choices and actions, not a button prompt.
  • edited April 16
    Gold Linking isnt hard to excecute at all and I think it isnt ment to. The gold link timing needs to be short so you can choose between gold link, normal link and starting another combo in a very short time.

    Human can almost react in 0,2 seconds that means if you make the delay to long the defence abilities will crush every attempt on attacking.
    I would tend to prefere even more ways to alter an attack. For example a delayed gold link timing after a feint, because now it most often useless to start a heavy attack after a feint.

    You dont need the bar btw. There are like 3different gold link timings. One for fast one for heavy and one for double hits. I didnt notice the bar until my 300 hours.
    Gold link isnt a reward for good timing but most‎ of all a way to alter your attack speed without additional keys.
    Im sure some people here played tekken or street fighter and know what on point timing is.
    So imo gold linking already is a choice and not a button prombt.
  • Araziel333
    you clearly dont like the Goldlink component of the fighting in Absolver.
    You make several points throughout this post which are not completely compatible.

    You criticize the game for being too simplistic, and yet you argue to take one of the mechanics out of the game that adds a user chosen random element to a fight.(that is strategy in my opinion)
    you do know that you can manually change your stance at any point right?
    you make it sound like all you do is place moves in a deck and hit the button to cycle through them.
    While this can be done, it doesnt make for a very strategic fight.

    I dont look at the bar at all when i choose to goldlink; i have practiced my deck so that i have become familiar to the timing of each move, and when to activate the next move to goldlink it ( i see this as a skill that can be used strategically)
  • holy crap i literally just commented to this same post in a different discussion.....bro maybe you should play mini golf. swing at your own pace or something idk.. good luck.
  • truthfully goldlinking is an essential mechanic to the game. without it absolver wouldn't be the same.
  • I think Araziel is just confusing Gold-Linking with Fast-Spamming. And lets be honest, if you really just want to win, button-mashing through a fast deck is still the easiest way to do it. No need for strategy, no need to carefully craft a deck; just smash through the fastest attacks available and you'll probably win AT LEAST 80% of your fights. Hell, you don't even need to link them; just hammer them out semi-accurately and you'll be fine. I think that's ultimately what Araziel is complaining about.
  • edited April 24
    I tend to agree with the idea that fast spam type decks are the most difficult to deal with and least fun to fight against.

    Hate the player, dont hate the game, is all im saying.
  • Gold linking as a mechanic is fine.

    I have no issue with a mechanic in Absolver that can increase the speed of a player's attack.

    What I would like to see is better implementation that does not result in it being abused by spam decks.

    Goldlinking would be better if it was tied into other areas, as a reward for executing strategy, I did reply with ideas of triggers that could activate a gold link.

    I think it needs to be redirected to relying upon a player creating advantageous situations to receive that speed boost.

    A window for the speed boost after a dodge

    Causing Guard Break

    An evade move avoiding an attack

    Stopping a hit with charged attack

    Stopping a move with a Stopping attack

    To keep the flow going, the speed boost could work like the heal shard skill, you keep it till you are hit/or you lose it if the attack misses.

    I will state my opinion one more time.

    Gold linking is something I would like to see implemented differently, so that it cannot be abused by a single play style that requires no effort outside of merely selecting the fastest moves.
  • UNCBLOCKS said:

    I think Araziel is just confusing Gold-Linking with Fast-Spamming. And lets be honest, if you really just want to win, button-mashing through a fast deck is still the easiest way to do it. No need for strategy, no need to carefully craft a deck; just smash through the fastest attacks available and you'll probably win AT LEAST 80% of your fights. Hell, you don't even need to link them; just hammer them out semi-accurately and you'll be fine. I think that's ultimately what Araziel is complaining about.

    I disagree with this -- fast attacks and button mashing is not the easiest way to win a fight, if your opponent is any good. There's a lot of tools in the toolbox to deal with this: avoids, class specialties, and blocking. Fast attacks that don't guardbreak are stamina negative, so this has already been dealt with, IMO. If you keep your block up, there's always a window in the fast attack chain to counter, interrupt, avoid, parry, or absorb. There's also combat distancing, which is knowing the range of each attack. You can change the range of combat by dodging or moving away, and then using a long range kick to interrupt fast attacks, which are usually closer ranged. There's so many aspects to the combat in this game that there's a lot of available play styles, and running a fast attack deck is just one. Charge attack heavy decks are another. Dodge and poke is another (and the most annoying to me, outside of double spin whirligig.) A balanced deck with tools to deal with other play styles is the best.

    #KeepGL

    On the subject of gold-linking, fast attacks and slow attacks can both be gold-linked, and I don't think you can not ever use gold-linking. If you are on the offensive, and your opponent isn't defending correctly or taking the offensive, then you should be gold-linking. If you're on the defensive, gold-linking won't save you. If a combo string is used over and over, and you're getting wrecked by it, then you need to look again at the tools in the toolbox that are there to deal with it, and work on it, or learn how to defend against a move in the attack chain, and use that to break it.
  • edited July 20

    To Slo_clp and the Absolver community.

    This is a discussion for everyone, I find that in many of my letters, the moment a developer posts their opinion, the community doesn't respond much since it seems that they might feel their opinion has been trumped by the authority of the devs.

    I believe Gold Linking as a mechanic should be removed from Absolver.

    1) Skill VS Skill Illusion

    1.A) Skill in Absolver is something a player should be allowed to build up based on perception, patience and timing their attack, and knowing what stance they can use best to counter their oponent's strategy.

    1.B) Skill Illusion, is muscle memory and watching a bar tell you when your next button press is coming up.

    #KeepGL I didn't even know there was a GL Bar until I was prestige 3 and I found out you attack faster if you time your attacks instead of spamming the attack button in my first prestige. Gold Linking gives you an advantage in battle and takes some skill to keep it going. For 1.A) You can do the same thing with Gold Linking, it'll just be a little harder to counter or to observe your opponent moveset. In my opinion gold linking makes it more intense when you're using it or if the opponent is using it.

  • I'm not sure I understand what exactly the complaint here is. What is it specifically about goldlinking that's problematic?

    Like it seems preposterous to me? You're just suggesting that they remove a core mechanic of the game?
    #KeepGL

  • Keep GL, just make it cost more stamina to do it. Multiple moves pushed together in real succession actually cost more stamina in real life because of the speed needed to do such moves uses more muscles to maintain the momentum and damage amount
  • thats actually a cool suggestion :)
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