which beats you more- The player's deck or the player's skill?

I would rate my fighting skills as average.
I try to focus on decks that have a good flow to them; not the fastest or most damaging decks, but they feel good and smooth as I work through the moves.
My results fighting seem all over the place- Sometimes I get wiped badly, sometimes I give a good beating, and sometimes the fights look and feel like a scene from a old school movie.

So I pose this question to my fellow Absolvers-
Which helps a player win more frequently, the moves in the deck, or the skill of the player?

Comments

  • edited February 26
    In my opinion there are decks assisting noobs and decks assisting pros i think.
    Im no diamond player but i played on my gf's account with only the starting moves and could win pretty often while i win muuuch more with my own deck so...
    all in all i would say skill matters above everything else in absolver
    but a pretty great part is made up of the deck, and a little of special ability and shard skills.
  • There’s definitely an air of cheap tactics used by noobs with no respect. However there’s ways to learn these shit tactics and work around them to punish their mistakes. I believe that you’re getting beat by the player.
  • Deck is a proection of player skill, I think.
  • Shoegazer said:

    Deck is a proection of player skill, I think.

    except when its copied ofc
  • I want to start by saying that I am generally trash at this game, but that doesn't make me inexperienced. I've played and been around since the start, I watch videos and know alot about the game, but I'm bad at it since it's hard. And I like a challenge, I like when two fighters step into the trials and respect eachother by winning with skill, not decks or cheezy spam. I've met and fought plenty of Prospects and Absolver wich won simply because of spam and decks that are faster than Mach f"cking 4. It's annoying since I try to fight as fairly and respectfully as possible, I don't push people into corners and start spamming, I don't use the same moves over and over and over again. I play the game as if it was realistic since "real-world Absolvers" wouldn't just do the same kicks and punches all the time, they would mix it up.
    I feel like I'm being held back by fighting with respect for my opponent, wich is weird giving that this is the most fair game I've ever played.
    Again, I'm trash at this game (like really fucking bad) but I know alot about it, so I would say that "pros" use their deck to "unleash" their full potential. "Noobs" ends up using some moves that are cheezy and spammy so that their deck will fill in the missing gap that their skill should fill up instead.
    That's how I feel about the system and I feel the need to add that I know when someone beats me by player skill and when someone beats me by using something that I don't feel is "respectful" wich is just stupid on my part since this is a videogame, not real life.
    Most of the fights I take part in I lose, and I feel strongly that it's because of the deck and moves that player was using. I rarely see people use Faint effectively and style abilites are poorly managed by my opponents.
    Just a final word, I am very bad at this game so don't take my words for anything, but I feel like I can give a clear picture of the problem at hand with player skill and decks.
  • edited March 4
    From what i've seen, its the so called "pros" that all use the same cheezy moves, noobs tend to just go "oh wow this move looks cool i like and il use it" then they fight the cough cough "pros" and either end up joining the dark side or stay in the light and make fun decks that they like withouth consern for meta.

    A real pro player will destroy a meta deck player with a deck that has no meta at all. Though if someone is using meta dosen't mean hes or she is bad either but youl never know lol ( Unless hes a cool guy/gal and understands that meta is stronger then non meta and also has a fun deck then you can truly see his/her talents. )


    So i'd say both. if you truly wana have fun and make a deck in consequence and the other player has cheap moves and tactics it will definitely be harder.

    Example earthquake and sidekick, Skill is irelevant in this case, if your opponent has them equiped and you dont he has an advantage.

  • Forgive me for my ignorance, but what exactly are you guys referring to when you say "meta?" Also, what do u guys define as "cheap" "scrub" or "noob" tactics?
  • edited March 11
    Rip_Ridah said:

    Forgive me for my ignorance, but what exactly are you guys referring to when you say "meta?" Also, what do u guys define as "cheap" "scrub" or "noob" tactics?

    jab punch
    fast elbow
    jumped light kick ( not as fast as the 2 above but is the fastest jumping move and hits "mid").

    ...Due to them interupting 90% of the other moves


    roll back fist
    body blow
    drunken paw
    tetsuzanko
    surging palm


    ...Due to the fact that 73 of 96 of all barehand attacks can be avoided with them... and klahts have the time to absorb realise your doing a breaker hit ( which are all vertical or thrust ) then use one and still have time to dodge it.

    Some are dependent on the stance its equiped but all hits that arc 180 degrees horizontally may be avoided deppeding on if the hit comes form the right or left.
    Like equiping surging palm for example on back right alternative, may dodge said hits if they come form the right and vise versa if equiped on back left)



    1 backfall strike
    2 whirlwind double palm
    3 double fist strech
    4 handstand kick
    5 donkey slap

    these are in order from top to bottom, top being the worsts ones

    ...due to them having

    good range, good damage even withouth scaling, good tracking (hard to dodge), tighter gaps when goldlinking (easy to spam), all hit mid (even harder to dodge), rendering stoping attacks useless since they own every charge move



    Earthquake and any 90+ damage attack as sure hit followup.


    Laughing emote
    sarcastic calp emote
    facepalm emote
    The kneeling emote that if you spam it makes your character look like hes humping air so to speak.




    This my friends is the current META.


    The more you have any of these the more your are killing the concept of absolver.

    By that i mean the versatility of these moves makes it so almost everyone uses them.
    Most will even remove a move they find fun and cool for one of these because winning with the least challenge comes first i guess.




    So in short this is a guide on "how to be a douche bag"

    Equip all the following moves and emotes and an ice mask while your at it and boom transformation complete :)
  • i agree with fast elbow but not with jab punch. after a 2 knockback move you can hit a 13 start up move against someone using jab punch. 13 start up moves + ducking moves + side dodge moves make up + parry moves make up more than 40% and usually deal more damage than jab punch.

    give fast elbow a bit better knock back or damage and make its start up 10 and interrupting with fast moves isnt a problem anymore id say
  • I also agree that the jab isn't a problem, it can be ducked with low avoids, side-avoided, or avoided pretty easily if you're at the right range. If you're in close to somebody, a jab is going to be faster than doing a high side kick or spinning around and turning your back to get momentum for a tornado kick -- which is why it's good to have close in interrupts. If you start a long range move at the right range, it's going to beat the jab with range and timing. And, you should get punished for initiating a longer ranged move while close to the opponent.
  • edited March 12
    Jab punch is definetly the least problematic of the bunch, but its meta as in almost everyone uses it.


    "If you start a long range move at the right range, it's going to beat the jab with range and timing"

    this applies to jlk and fast elbow to and all attacks actually.


    though if you are putting pressure on someone or are backed into a corner its still going to cut into most of your gold links or start-ups assuming they arent vert avoids or ducking hits or fast elbow.


    personally i dont mind these 3 fast hits im just tired of seeing them, vertical avoids are the thing i hate most.


    p.s when i mentioned

    "and klahts have the time to absorb realise your doing a breaker hit ( which are all vertical or thrust ) then use one and still have time to dodge it."


    here is a visual example.




    Methamos "after a 2 knockback move"

    thats advantage on hits (hitstun) dosent change that if he hits your first you can't apply the advantage on hit to gain the 2 extra frames. Though yea eventhough its the weakest of the bunch per-se its still good enough for almost everyone to have it in thier deck.
  • edited March 12
    Thank you for the info Dante. I've remained fairly competitive on PS4 with only a select number of people who can beat me consistently. My deck has a few of these moves that have been unchanged since inception of the game. However, that is where any similarities end.

    This community meta can be found in just about any fighting game I have ever played. I only really play 3d fighters. When choosing my characters to main, I usually choose the most unorthodox, difficult characters to learn and master because the community ALWAYS goes with the least path of resistance to achieve victory.

    People want the "best" character/team to win as easy and fast as possible. However, those same people will be easier to read, adjust to, and manipulate because they are programmed with set patterns.

    Imo, the same holds true for this game. It is frustrating while dealing with these tactics; I wholeheartedly agree with you. But when they win the first match and then lose every subsequent match before tucking tail, there is no greater feeling of accomplishment.
  • Speed decks are cheesy, and provide a massive advantage in offense no matter which logical approach you take. The damage separation between slow and fast attacks really is negligible.

    Skill will always be the biggest factor, in the same way a movie trope like blind martial arts masters can still be highly deadly against other fighters. But slow decks are inarguably a massive disadvantage when you can be perma hitlocked and unable to retaliate. Any retaliation will just get interrupted anyway.
  • I agree Heathen357. However, there is a counter measure for just about every strategy in this game unless lag is involved. It just depends on one's swift ability to adapt to said strategy on the fly.
  • edited March 12
    @ Rip_Ridah The objective balance is my main concern.

    I'm ok with getting beat when it's by someone who uses a wide array of attacks and executes very good defensive skills, instead of spamming me into a wall and hitlocking me with drunken styles, interrupting even my perfectly timed goldlinks. My deck isnt even unrealistically slow. I have my upper-left and right quadrant mosly speed attacks. But they aren't stagger skills, so yeah. Not much help.



  • So in your opinion Heathen, which is worse: drunken moves or speed moves? Most of the drunken moves are evasive not fast. The fact that all moves are accessible by all players is where the balance lies in Sloclaps eyes *I'm assuming*. The only true originality, in my opinion, comes from how a player utilizes his/her deck, shards, and defensive abilities.
  • edited March 13
    I just accepted my fate as a bad player and going full aesthetic ! I'm actually using a build i've found on Youtube which utilizes only kicks and i'm lovin' it !
    Ow yeah and I'm playing on PC with a mouse so.. no parry / absorb / fancy doges for me !
  • edited March 14
    Rip_Ridah said:

    But when they win the first match and then lose every subsequent match before tucking tail, there is no greater feeling of accomplishment.

    unfortunately i get no pleasure from beating them or from them beating me, thats my problem i guess xD

    i like fresh experiences, youd think that a game with near 150 moves total granting everyone a change to be unique to a certain degree would stimulate this need of mine, but so far its like card games, there is a bunch of moves that are staples to every deck basically. Unlike card games where the best cards will be worth alot, slcoclap dosent gain money from it hence why i wonder why they dont do something drastic about it.


    im a Beast at UMVC 2 and 3 ( not the new one it f-ing sucks ) and x-men vs street fighter and i agree and am fully used to some characters having beter counters, anti airs and reversals and straight up damage and range and overal viability but these are tiers rather then meta, as you still see people using all the diferent characters. Since in most cases these games balance high speed and range and options with low health, or low range and speed with high health, super armor and higher damage. ( glass canons, controls, balanced and tank)

    which cant be done for absolver. absolver is more similar to like magic or yugioh then street fighter honestly.

    If you could take and isolate the best moves of each character and make a new one out of them like a card deck and everyone could do the same then meta is born and everyone becomes clones of eachother.
  • Unless you're a khalt facing doublehit spam, skill usually does the trick
  • edited March 14
    I understand where you are coming from Dante, but this game is quite unique. The problem a lot of people are having is the set pool of moves at everyone's disposal. I've discovered that just because a person may have a similar deck to me, I will effectively use it to their disadvantage. If I'm familiar with a move and then become familiar with the string; they lose. Period. End of discussion.

    The fun I get out of winning and losing is remaining adaptable defensively AND offensively. Two great players of Absolver will begin playing chess after awhile. The decks and moves remain the same yet the fighting styles change and evolve. Sloclap has been doing a decent job through balancing the moves and styles. Not perfect, but small steps in the right direction.
  • edited March 15
    The decks and combat style are everything. No matter what your skill level. Players with no skill are wiping people with the same decks and absorb style right now it's pretty ridiculous there are some moves that can basically only be countered and once one hit connects with some decks (stun lock/ frame prioity) it can create almost an endless spam opportunity. Everyone I encounter that is teal or higher all have essentially the same decks with absorb as the most popular/ overpowered style.
  • edited March 15
    Rip_Ridah said:

    I understand where you are coming from Dante, but this game is quite unique. The problem a lot of people are having is the set pool of moves at everyone's disposal. I've discovered that just because a person may have a similar deck to me, I will effectively use it to their disadvantage. If I'm familiar with a move and then become familiar with the string; they lose. Period. End of discussion.



    The fun I get out of winning and losing is remaining adaptable defensively AND offensively. Two great players of Absolver will begin playing chess after awhile. The decks and moves remain the same yet the fighting styles change and evolve. Sloclap has been doing a decent job through balancing the moves and styles. Not perfect, but small steps in the right direction.

    you contradict yourself a little bit here buddy.

    " If I'm familiar with a move and then become familiar with the string; they lose. Period. End of discussion."

    dosent jive much with

    "The decks and moves remain the same yet the fighting styles change and evolve"

    Cant get used to something thats always changing and addapting to you specifically its a neverending two way struggle which is fine but i want it to be enjoyable and different from fighting other players, but lets say we would play street fighter every day together and I only picked the same character every time wouldnt you want me to pick something else for a change xD and then lets say you went to play with someone else and he picked the same one i always use after a while the smell of fresh daisies fades and the scene is played out even if the character is brought to life differently its remains the same character.


    i will agree that the most experienced player of the two's favourite moves, if in the other players deck also can be seen as an advantage since your more familiar with them then the other person.

    Thing is my favourite moves are not verry versatile nor anything special but cool looking for that matter so i dont get that advantage no one uses them xD

    you say in another tread that you never originally wanted nerfs for anything just as long as your style windfall got brought up to the other styles level of viability.

    i think its fair that id want the same for my lame unpopular moves right? the funniest part is i dont really care if they are stronger really, its just that more people would use them. So i want a buff for them or a nerf for the others for the indirect effect that it will encourage diversity over just me being like "nice my move are stronger il kick more ass now" i dont want to kick more ass i want fresh smelling fights ;)

    Anyway in most cases after the first game is done win or lose if i showed any sign of getting used to thier cheese chain or that im not going down easily they leave instantly, usually the meta clones are the type of people that see fighting someone they dont spam destroy into oblivion as not worth the time, im guessing they tell themselfves...

    "why would i rematch this guy when i can fight a newnopponent thats not used to me at all or that i know i can beat quickly" : P


    So yea though its true sloclap is slowly trying to make things right but its a tad slow for my taste, though granted long term patience is not my strongest quality, (multiple months) im human what can i say :)

    tatsujay said:

    The decks and combat style are everything. No matter what your skill level. Players with no skill are wiping people with the same decks and absorb style right now it's pretty ridiculous there are some moves that can basically only be countered and once one hit connects with some decks (stun lock/ frame prioity) it can create almost an endless spam opportunity. Everyone I encounter that is teal or higher all have essentially the same decks with absorb as the most popular/ overpowered style.

    See another one for the cause. More and More People are starting to get fed up with it. This is 95% accurate and anyone who fails to see it is delusional.

    these type of players are setting the reputation for absolver and its not a good thing for a game whos core concept is attack diversity and freedom of creativity.

    ( i dont agree with "The decks and combat style are everything. No matter what your skill level" decks and style are a huge factor but skill remains a factor also. )

  • Abolsver pvp can get a lil toxic sometimes
  • I understand your confusion in what I say about the decks being the same yadda yadda. I look at fighting games and its characters differently than most players. I can't speak on 2d fighters much, but in 3d fighters (or any fighter that I'm familiar with) the only...

    Edit: I have loss the will to fight this battle of words. Hopefully the game thrives on and becomes successful enough to warrant a sequel in the future with experience gained by Sloclap through the trials and errors of this game and its community. I hope to see you all in battle in some honorable and competitive matches.
  • The core mechanics in this game require skill, but right now the move sets are limited. You can't make a viable punching only deck, and there are certain moves that become nessicary for any deck to stand up in the high ranks. There are only a handful of moves that offer fast and smooth chains and if you really want a truly diverse combat experience you have to sacrifice originality for moves that counter and/or expoilt frame bonus
  • edited March 16

    Abolsver pvp can get a lil toxic sometimes

    Honestly i think sloclap wanted the pvp to be toxic, im gona go ahead and say it.

    Sloclap wanted you to feel humiliated.

    otherwise why put in a laughting emote, and a sarcastic clap emote and facepalm emote etc..

    because hey being meta kahtl spamed into a corner to then lose and have the teal douchebag over you sarcasting claping and laughing at you is just the most fun.


    thanks sloclap. its always fun to be laughed at....

    i mean seriously xD they are promoting douchy behavior. Its disheartening.
  • I always see this coming from the heavy stagger decks -- not all of them -- but every time someone's disrespectful, I usually get ballerina twirled and donkey-kicked to death. Seems a bit upside down, but there you go :)
  • Abolsver pvp can get a lil toxic sometimes

    True. But then it doesn't really matter what your disrespectfull oponent feels as long as YOU stay calm, right? I think it's important to have fun even in this kind of situations.Thought it always saddens me when people stop to show any sign of respect once you start to beat them. Good thing it doesn't happen very often. Probably because I'm the one who usually get's all the beating ))
    THDante said:


    i mean seriously xD they are promoting douchy behavior. Its disheartening.

    Disheartening it is, if it's true. I really hope otherwise.

    Oh, I and really think that it's skill what matters the most in this game. But then... meta+skill can be a really scary combination.

  • For me it's things like latency and the weird ghost blockstun that happens.
    Explained here: https://absolvergame.com/forums/discussion/26720/hitstun-from-feints
    Even if I know their attacks and the timings to counter them, my character keeps stopping suddenly, ignoring my inputs, or just flat out buffers his defensive and attacks executed before being hit after the blockstun/hitstun of the attack. Leading to basically every parry or interrupt being a 50/50 guess against any decent deck, even if I can see and react to them easily. I've even had times where he would parry the exact opposite direction I flicked the stick in, or an attack would just go right through it.

    In general though, decks with fast attacks complilmented by breakers seem to be more of an issue than anything. Due to the aforementioned ghost blockstun. Player skill does make it more difficult, but it's mostly the fact that I use a suboptimal deck for flare over functionality. So I can't just interrupt/avoid safely every time unlike them.

    Also, anyone decent runs heal and I don't. So every match I have to take out nearly 100% of their hp every time I die, and only get back a sliver of health after beating them. Any time I fight some one who doesn't use heal, it's a pretty close fight. Though when they use it it's always a 1 to 3 loss for me.
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